Questions you have before making a decision to go Bankrupt and the Bankruptcy process

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By MrsMathers
#8497 Many thanks for all your help so far. I went bankrupt on Monday after running up over £130k of debt. This was over approx 12 years and as a student the debt snow balled and I was unable to continue with payments, as you can imagine. However, after the bakruptcy court meeting I spoke to the OR on the phone and she booked me in a telephone appointment. Today, she has called and stated that now she has the statement of affairs and has seen the amount of debt and the time over which the debt has built up I need to have an office interview. She's aked me to bring everything from loan and credit card application forms, statements, everything in to relation of the debts. However I only have the last months statements and have no application forms or anything. The tone the OR used in the message screamed 'reckless' and the fact she wants to see the applications makes me think 'fraud', although anything I ever applied for was honest and true. What kind of interview can I expect and what will happen if I don't have all the paperwork?
I am very worried! Has anyone else experinced this?
By Mel_Odious
#8500 No experience I am afraid.
Fraud is only if you have deliberately misled lenders and lied on any application (although most have us have told little white lies about salary etc)
The terms are cupable and reckless and if you are found to be either or both, then yes you are in a spot of bother.
Providing that you have not been fraudulent then the only sanction available to the OR is to extend the term of your BO by way of a BRO (Bankruptcy Restriction Order) from anything between two and fifteen years.

Mel
Last edited by Mel_Odious on Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Thrifty
#8537 not thats its going to help much but student and moving about to different digs etc could be a get out for not having mail from the companies, it depends how you have acted? :wink:
By liverpoolcherries
#8606
over £130k of debt. This was over approx 12 years
Does this mean the amount and time are a relevant factor? I would have thought that it was more reckless (or could be perceived to be) if you racked up £50k in a year or two rather than that, or is the definition of reckless and culpable a flexible one?

liverpoolcherries
By bob1965
#8632 Cant really say how the OR is going to act, but from personal experience...

My wife and I both went BR in May 2004, owing £175k built up over about 3.5 years... Most of this we were liable for personally, as we had taken out large personal loans and used Credit Cards to help finance a new business venture (which ultimately failed)...

Previous to this I had been working in IT (very comfortably) and so had a good credit rating so found getting the finance very easy. When we went BR and had our phone call with the OR (from the court) we didnt even get offered a telephone interview, they just went straight to a face-to-face.

We explained what we had been doing, explained what the moeny had been used for and handed over every bit of paper we had (which was very incomplete)... we also explained that I was not going to return to work immediately but that my wife would be returning to work in the NHS and as a result were given early discharge in Nov 2004 with no IPA...

Basically what I'm trying to say is BE HONEST. You only have to worry if you MADE a fraudulant application. If not do as we did and just hold your hands up and say, yep could have done better. These guys DO know the difference between genuine people who make mistakes and those who deliberately set out to scr*w the system. You'll be fine if you tell them the truth... :D
ByDavidc
#8636
bob1965 wrote:Cant really say how the OR is going to act, but from personal experience...

My wife and I both went BR in May 2004, owing £175k built up over about 3.5 years... Most of this we were liable for personally, as we had taken out large personal loans and used Credit Cards to help finance a new business venture (which ultimately failed)...

Previous to this I had been working in IT (very comfortably) and so had a good credit rating so found getting the finance very easy. When we went BR and had our phone call with the OR (from the court) we didnt even get offered a telephone interview, they just went straight to a face-to-face.

We explained what we had been doing, explained what the moeny had been used for and handed over every bit of paper we had (which was very incomplete)... we also explained that I was not going to return to work immediately but that my wife would be returning to work in the NHS and as a result were given early discharge in Nov 2004 with no IPA...

Basically what I'm trying to say is BE HONEST. You only have to worry if you MADE a fraudulant application. If not do as we did and just hold your hands up and say, yep could have done better. These guys DO know the difference between genuine people who make mistakes and those who deliberately set out to scr*w the system. You'll be fine if you tell them the truth... :D


I concur, I racked up around £220,000 in 3-4 years the Official Reciever did obtain copies of my application forms to check if my applications were not fraudulent. As they wern't I had no problems and was automaticaly discharged after 13 months.
David
By lofty
#8640 I don't wish to appear to be a doom and gloom merchant........BUT.............surely if the OR suspects fraudulent behaviour (which amounts to criminal conduct) on that person's part, that person is then entitled to his legal rights (e.g. a caution before answering questions and the right to legal representation) as in any other matter when a person is suspected of crime.

If I was in that position, I would tell them to get on with it, and if there is evidence of crime, ok carry on. If the or goes along those lines of enquiry........GET LEGAL ADVICE about your rights in criminal law!
ByDavidc
#8645
lofty wrote:I don't wish to appear to be a doom and gloom merchant........BUT.............surely if the OR suspects fraudulent behaviour (which amounts to criminal conduct) on that person's part, that person is then entitled to his legal rights (e.g. a caution before answering questions and the right to legal representation) as in any other matter when a person is suspected of crime.

If I was in that position, I would tell them to get on with it, and if there is evidence of crime, ok carry on. If the or goes along those lines of enquiry........GET LEGAL ADVICE about your rights in criminal law!


Just to address your proceedural matters. First of all everyone recieves a caution at the start of their interview with the Official Reciever.
Secondly it would be for the creditor to make a criminal complaint of fraud that would then be investigated by the police. The offence is obtaining a pecunary advantage by deception. That is when you have the right to legal representation.
The only other action would be that in all likelyhood it would be considered prudent to protect future creditors from the individual by the placement of a BRO for up to 15 years. That would in effect delay discharge untill that date.
David
Last edited by Davidc on Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By lofty
#8652 Thanks for that David............................any knowledge of anyone being investigated and subsequently prosecuted (don't wish to worry you Mrs Mathers)
ByDavidc
#8663
lofty wrote:Thanks for that David............................any knowledge of anyone being investigated and subsequently prosecuted (don't wish to worry you Mrs Mathers)


I just know the proceedure lofty. It is down to the creditor. Like shoplifting; whether they take action and pursue a complaint is up to them. My local supemarket just bans shoplifters for life. Get caught in Marks and Spencers and they call the police.
And we are only talking hyperthetically Mrs Mathers not about you.
David
By Mel_Odious
#8681
liverpoolcherries wrote:
over £130k of debt. This was over approx 12 years
Does this mean the amount and time are a relevant factor? I would have thought that it was more reckless (or could be perceived to be) if you racked up £50k in a year or two rather than that, or is the definition of reckless and culpable a flexible one?

liverpoolcherries

This is what Mrs. M said that the OR questioned.
Not necessarily why she is being hauled in.
But yes legalise is often couched in words that can mean almost anything to anyone. From what I have seen of the many differences round the Country on what the OR rules, then it would be up to the individual OR as to what is deemed as R and C.

Mel