Questions and Info relating to Property Issues inc, Charging Orders and Repossession

Moderators: TalbotWoods, JaneClack

By liz399
#460733 I have received a interim charging order and court date for charge to be made on my house this month. I had a ccj and couldn't keep up with payments as lost my job, this is a business debt by the way, my business has now closed down and need for find other means of income. Not sure about going to court or how to best deal with this?

Was wondering if anymore could advise me please.

liz339
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By TalbotWoods
#460833 Hi liz399

Couple of quick questions to start with to ensure you receive the right advice.

You say you have very limited income to pay the CCJ, have you completed a Income and Expenses form for the courts yet, to say what you can afford?

Was the debt for a limited company or a self employed business debt?

Tim
By liz399
#460973 Thank you for getting back to me its a sole trader debt.

I filled in an income and expenditure court form when I first received the CCJ and made offer of payment which was excepted. However the reason I haven't kept up with the monthly payments is because my financial situation has changed and I don't have enough income now until I get employed work which I am looking for at present but that doesn't help my situation now.

Hope you can advise

liz399
By liz399
#460983 Can I just add.

I haven't received any information from the court themselves for this interim charging order. Just a letter from the creditor informing me of the court date the amount owed and that the land registry has been informed with the attached interim court form?

Not sure if this information is relevant.

Thank you so much

liz399
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By TalbotWoods
#461023 Liz

I've asked a colleague to look at this, as I there is something not making sense (Not your side).

Yes the courts do notify, so I am pondering what has happened here.

Have you tried to contact the allege court to see if they can enlighten you, and have you asked the DCA/Creditor (go on name them) for more information about this alleged Intermin Court Order.

Tim
By liz399
#461053 Thanks Tim, I would rather not name them its not a big company though?

Well I received a letter from the creditor informing me that they had applied for an interim order and going for a charge next week they attached the interim order to the letter with the court stamp. They also said in the letter I could write to them and request the relevant information they will be taking to court but I thought this would just be the financial income and expenditure form I originally filled out when the ccj was applied and the land registry from?

Thank you for your help

Liz399
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By JaneClack
#461063 When was the CCJ granted?

You are in default of a CCJ anyway so the creditor has the right to apply for an interim charging order - I am surprised you did not get any notification from the court but as you have a copy of the order attached to the letter from the creditor I would ring the court straight away to find out why you did not get notification from them as generally you would have much more than a week to prepare for a charging order hearing.

However, this is not going to be pleasant news for you, but it is highly unlikely that the court will overturn this order unless you can give good grounds and inability to pay is not a defence - you do need to attend court but the hearing will last less than five minutes. You can take along an income and expenditure but as you cannot offer anything more than a token payment the court is unlikely to agree any terms here. What you must ask for is that the charge be limited to the judgment debt with no more interest added. You can also ask that no order for sale be gone for - courts generally are happy to allow a full charging order but are not generally happy about orders for sale.

The equity in your property will also have an effect as if you do have a lot of equity - in your share - this again influences the court.
By liz399
#461113 Ccj was April 2012.

What do you think a reasonable offer would be, i know the creditor would not except anything lower then £350.00 per month but if its the judges final decision based on my new financial income details what do they think is reasonable is it based on how much is owed on the debt. I feel I was being stretch to pay more then I could afford when the ccj was applied just to the please the creditor didn't know the judge may have granted a lesser amount not sure i have that right though ?
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By JaneClack
#461133 He may not be willing to discuss the instalment at the hearing. The hearing is to decide whether a charging order is legally upholdable and from the information you have given - ie reneged on a judgment debt (even though it was for circumstances beyond your control) the judge is unlikely to overturn the interim order but to make it final.

If you can only offer £1 as a token payment per month then use an N245 to vary the judgment debt if the judge is not willing to discuss it at the hearing - which has been the case at every one I have attended.

How much was the judgment sum?

Is there enough equity in your share of the property to pay it?

These are the kind of things the judge takes into account.

But the bottom line is you need to approach the court and ask why they did not send you any notification as you have not had time to prepare anything or arrange to get to the court etc with such short notice. They may agree to postpone as you should have more than 7 days notice of an interim charging order and the hearing itself.
By liz399
#461153 Although I never got any information through from the court I did from the creditor so I have had time to look into it. Well I haven't really had time as a family member was seriously ill in hospital so my time was taken up there but that's no excuse I have time now,

The debt is for £11,000 business debt and there is plenty of equity in my property.
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By TalbotWoods
#461343 Liz

I now you have received this from the DCA, please please PLEASE contact the court yourself and confirm it.

It has been known for DCA to fake court documents, especially the smaller ones!

If not you MUST find out why you didn't recieve anything form the court, given you your right to defend.

Again it has been known for misinform the court of addresses etc, to prevent you presenting your case. This you MUST make sure doesn't happen.

The main reason you MUST chase this up with the court is that you have identified that you have "plenty of equity in my property", if the DCA has worked this out they may go for a full CO, and move for forced sale!!

SO FIGHT IT NOW.

Please see this fact sheet from National Debt Line, which will explain all this more clearly:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/engla ... unty_court


Tim
By liz399
#461593 I called the court yesterday and they said that a copy of the interim order is only sent by the creditor the court does not send a copy also; so that's why I never got it?

Can I tell you what the interim order says maybe its different?

Getting so nervous.
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By TalbotWoods
#461673 Hi Liz

OK so now there is confirmation that this is a genuine Interim CO, but as I have said it is not unknown for some of the smaller DCA to fake these.

Part of the problem is the fact that for the past couple of years DCA can apply and CO even for those who are good payers with CCJs, they now look at the risks of someone defaulting who owns property as a potential asset and that is all.

The judge 'may' look at if there is equity, they may look at the family situation, but I am sorry this is not always the case.

So what you need to do now is look at it from the courts view:

  • There is a CCJ in place.
  • There are missed payments.
  • You have not correct these missing payments.
  • The DCA will be able to argue that there is a risk you will not pay.
  • There is property that they can secure the Debt on.
  • The court is not allowed to look a the personal circumstance.
  • Has the DCA complied with the Civil Procedure Rules (almost definite).
  • The court HAS NOT OPTION BUT TO ISSUE THE FULL ORDER.

Sarahs advice on your next actions is sound.

Once the CO is in place you need to submit a N245 to the court and get the repayments REDUCED to what you can afford, if your income drops you must again submit a N245 to reduce each time.

I have Sarah to pop back in and see if there is anything else she can suggest.

Tim
By liz399
#461703 Okay thanks Tim what should I take to court with me then? Should I take an income and expenditure sheet and do I hand a letter to the judge asking for the charge be limited to the judgement debt with no more intetest added and no order for sale be gone for or do I just ask him at the hearing.

Some people say that even if you can only afford £1.00 it will be excepted but really that sounds rediculous?


Thank very much for your help but it looks like I have to except the consequences.
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By JaneClack
#461723 You cannot tell the judge what to do so the words respectfully request etc should be used.

If you have no money then you can only offer a token payment & of course an income & expenditure should be taken & you request - it can be verbally - that the judge write in the judgment that no interest etc be added. You could also suggest that he say no order for sale be made unless agreement defaulted on.

I WOULD STILL GET AN N245 SUBMITTED TO THE ORIGINATING COURT ASAP TO VARY THE JUDGMENT AS YOU ARE GOING TO A CHARGING ORDER HEARING NOT A VARIATION HEARING.

I am still surprised that you received such short notice of this hearing & would point this out in court - take the letter etc they sent with date etc