Scottish and English debt laws are different, so if you are a Scottish resident and have questions on debt, then this is the place to post.

Moderators: TalbotWoods, JaneClack

By angel
#22088 Partner had CCCS appointment today which has helped us a great deal and we are going on a DMP from 1 November.

Got lots of advice which helped but the advice given re the RBS personal loan has got me terrified. This is a large debt in my partners name which I did not know that he had taken out, and unsecured but if I understand what he has told me that the RBS could try and force an order against our house. I always thought that an unsecured loan they could not claim against your house ? Our mortgage is in 3 names and we do have some equity)

Can anyone advise a very worried person tonight

Thanks in advance
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By JaneClack
#22223 This is an action that creditors seem to be going for more and more - although I have to say it is not one I generally see RBS doing.

What the creditor does is go for a county court judgment. That in itself is no problem - it is just an administrative procedure that proves the debt. It sits on your credit file for six years and then, as if it were on a conveyor belt, it falls off. You continue to pay the sum agreed as of course you will have responded to the claims summons by filling in the admissions form and returning it to the CREDITOR (and some people send a copy to the court just to make sure the creditor cannot say they didn't receive it!). Generally the creditor agrees to the offer but some do not and go for a forthwith judgment. These can be fought but you have to move quickly. The reason for this is that with a forthwith judgment one is almost immediately in default and so the creditor can go for enforcement action.

Enforcement action can take one of three routes - the court sends the bailiffs round (when informed by creditor of the default) so do not let them in and try to get the judgment varied; they can go for an attachment of earnings - this one fights on the grounds one would lose one's job and they would get nothing; but number three is the one some creditors do this for and that is the "interim charging order". They do not have to ask your permission to do this and a caution will be put on the property at the land registry and co-owners of the property will be informed. You would be given a date for the final hearing to make the charging order absolute and this you must get transferred to your local county court so you can go and make representations as to how this would be unfair on your other creditors. They can be overturned but more and more DJs feel that as they are not asking you to sell the house but just ensuring that they get the money when the house is sold then it is not unreasonable. Just ensure you keep paying it if this happens.

It seems grossly unfair I know as you could really ask - what is the point of calling it an unsecured debt? True - the only way they cannot turn an unsecured debt into a secured one is if one has no asset to do it with! The other side of the coin is that one has an appreciating asset and the creditor wants to make sure he gets his money. What stinks is interest being added and their costs being added to your debt which you were trying to repay anyway. This action has become more popular in the last few years as equity in people's properties has increased.

You have posted this question in the Scotland section and I can only say this is what happens in England and Wales and am sure it is the same in Scotland but I am sure one of our Scottish specialists will soon put me right if it isn't.
By angel
#22238 Sarah

Thanks for your reply it is appreciated

Deliberately put it on the scottish forum because I know scottish law and english law is different

I guess we shall have to wait and see and deal with whatever happens, but I just want to have some knowledge of the procedure or to see if anyone else had a similar experience

The CCCS have advised that it is highly unlikely that the RBS would do this but I take nothing for granted anymore

angel
By JLP
#22400 In my experience of dealing with the Royal Bank-they often take court action but this is usually if you avoid them and dont try and come to an arrangement. They are usually willing to take reasonable repayment offers backed up with a Financial Statement.

It is not called a Charging Order in Scotland , it is called an Inhibition order.Can I check though that you actually live in Scotland ? Reason I ask is that a creditor must take enforcement action based on the country you live in ie if you live in England it will be done under English Law and vice versa, no matter where the creditor has their business.

Re Inhibition Orders- although often threatened, we dont see too many of them up here. An action has to be raised in the Court of Session in Edinburgh which is very expensive and quite hard to get as they have to prove have all other methods of enforcement have failed.A repayment plan by CCCS,CAB,Paylink or Debt Advisor or Advice Centre that is being paid would be unlikely to turn into an Inhibition Order.

What is more likely to happen is that Creditors North of the Border are using Bankruptcy if they believe that you have equity in your property.This is being used by Scottish Councils as a tool for Council Tax enforcement.

If you do live in Scotland and you have a property to protect- why don't you consider a Formal Debt Repayment Programme under the DAS scheme? This is a repayment programme similar to CCCS BUT its is formally agreed under Scottish law and stops enforcement action.I am surprised that CCCS did not suggest this to you.If they didnt, they arent doing their job properly for Scottish clients as they have not explored all options with you.

http://www.money-scotland.com/
By angel
#22420
JLP wrote:In my experience of dealing with the Royal Bank-they often take court action but this is usually if you avoid them and dont try and come to an arrangement. They are usually willing to take reasonable repayment offers backed up with a Financial Statement.

It is not called a Charging Order in Scotland , it is called an Inhibition order.Can I check though that you actually live in Scotland ? Reason I ask is that a creditor must take enforcement action based on the country you live in ie if you live in England it will be done under English Law and vice versa, no matter where the creditor has their business.

Re Inhibition Orders- although often threatened, we dont see too many of them up here. An action has to be raised in the Court of Session in Edinburgh which is very expensive and quite hard to get as they have to prove have all other methods of enforcement have failed.A repayment plan by CCCS,CAB,Paylink or Debt Advisor or Advice Centre that is being paid would be unlikely to turn into an Inhibition Order.

What is more likely to happen is that Creditors North of the Border are using Bankruptcy if they believe that you have equity in your property.This is being used by Scottish Councils as a tool for Council Tax enforcement.

If you do live in Scotland and you have a property to protect- why don't you consider a Formal Debt Repayment Programme under the DAS scheme? This is a repayment programme similar to CCCS BUT its is formally agreed under Scottish law and stops enforcement action.I am surprised that CCCS did not suggest this to you.If they didnt, they arent doing their job properly for Scottish clients as they have not explored all options with you.

http://www.money-scotland.com/


Thanks JLP

We do live in central Scotland and the CCCS did advise about the Inhibition Order, however, they did not advise a Formal Debt Repayment Programme under the DAS scheme, in fact it is the first we have ever heard of this! This would be a big weight of our minds if this was the case.

We are in a right mess and are determined to get it sorted although it is going to take time.

Hubby was the one who spoke to the CCCS and was quite happy to go along with DMP that they advised to start on 1 November. Could we still continue with this in the meantime and get advice re the DAS scheme or should we contact CCCS and ask about this or do we go ahead and find out for ourselves ?

Sorry for the rant but I am having many sleepless nights over all of this and just wish I could make it all go away but I know it has to be dealt with

Any advice would be greatly appreciated
By JLP
#22444 I would ask CCCS why they have not suggested DAS to you.... :evil: Obvioulsy I dont know all your circumstances and can only go by what you have posted here but if you can pay all your debts in a reasonable period, then it may be worthwhile option for you.Have a look at my post on DAS which will lead you to a DAS accredited free Money Advisor in your area.DAS does not freeze interest-although the Scottish Executive is looking about bringing this in legally so that interst is frozen.There are no CCCS accredited money advisors. I would continue paying your debts through them just now while you explore the DAS option however.

I do think CCCS are a worthwhile orgainisation but most of their clients are South of the Border and I sometimes dont feel that they really know what is happening in Money Advice North of the Border.They dont come to the Money Advice meetings so dont get a picture of what is "happening on the street" to be honest.I am a bit peed of with them that they havent even mentioned it and think I will get onto Money Advice Scotland about this................ :evil:

Yes-an inhibition order is a possibility-BUT it is more likely up here that creditors will force bankruptcy if you have equity in your house than go for a costly Inhibition Order.

If you want to Pm me your Council Area-I can give you details of a DAS accredited Money Advisor in your area, who have been trained by Money Advice Scotland and have to work to very strict standards.

There are a few in Central Scotland-although there are still a few Money Advisors still going through the accreditation process, so if there isnt one covering your area there may be one soon.

They all work for local Councils and CAB.
By angel
#22492
JLP wrote:I would ask CCCS why they have not suggested DAS to you.... :evil: Obvioulsy I dont know all your circumstances and can only go by what you have posted here but if you can pay all your debts in a reasonable period, then it may be worthwhile option for you.Have a look at my post on DAS which will lead you to a DAS accredited free Money Advisor in your area.DAS does not freeze interest-although the Scottish Executive is looking about bringing this in legally so that interst is frozen.There are no CCCS accredited money advisors. I would continue paying your debts through them just now while you explore the DAS option however.

I do think CCCS are a worthwhile orgainisation but most of their clients are South of the Border and I sometimes dont feel that they really know what is happening in Money Advice North of the Border.They dont come to the Money Advice meetings so dont get a picture of what is "happening on the street" to be honest.I am a bit peed of with them that they havent even mentioned it and think I will get onto Money Advice Scotland about this................ :evil:

Yes-an inhibition order is a possibility-BUT it is more likely up here that creditors will force bankruptcy if you have equity in your house than go for a costly Inhibition Order.

If you want to Pm me your Council Area-I can give you details of a DAS accredited Money Advisor in your area, who have been trained by Money Advice Scotland and have to work to very strict standards.

There are a few in Central Scotland-although there are still a few Money Advisors still going through the accreditation process, so if there isnt one covering your area there may be one soon.

They all work for local Councils and CAB.


Cheers for the reply. I will be contacting CCCS first thing Monday & asking them about DAS, it could be that we are not suited to that arrangement :? but I would like to find out either way

angel
By JLP
#22499 Let me know how you get on........ :)
By angel
#22558 CCCS have informed that they are aware of the DAS Scheme and that it is a relatively new scheme

The reason that it was never mentioned was because under the scheme you have to be able to pay all your debt off in a 5 year repayment plan, this could be pushed to 10 years but not likely to be accepted

It was not an option for us because we did not fit that criteria :(

At least they acknowledge that they are aware of DAS and hopefully are given the option to people who are able to meet the requirements of the scheme

angel
By JLP
#22903 The reason that it was never mentioned was because under the scheme you have to be able to pay all your debt off in a 5 year repayment plan, this could be pushed to 10 years but not likely to be accepted


Crap!!!!, the legislation says a "reasonable" repayment period. There are 10 year plans being accepted and even longer but it needs to go in front of a Sheriff.Can see THEY listened to the training......not. How long are you taking to pay off with CCCS?
By angel
#22909 JLP

CCCS have advised it will take 29 years :oops: :cry:

May be I am wrong but that was the only option they put to us ?

angel
By JLP
#23089 29 YEARS!!!!! ........... :shock: FFS if I had realised it was that long I wouldnt have suggested DAS, reasonable repayment time wouldnt have been that.

(Note to self-ask relevant bloody questions before opening gob... :oops: )

Hmm need to ponder some more over your case.
By JLP
#23097 Pmed you .......... :D